1. What statements or observations from Dan's journal were most thought-provoking for you? Why?
2. What do you think Christianity would look like if you could see from a different perspective? What if you lived in a small tribe of people away from technology? What if you were extremely wealthy or extremely poor? What if Christianity was not the dominant religion in your culture? What if you were much younger or much older? What are the elements that remain constant through all these variables?
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1. "If I let go of or loosen my grip on some things I've never before doubted, will I fall away from you? ... Guide me, please, Holy Spirit. Jesus said you would guide us all to the truth." Also, "Forgive us, Lord, for judging you according to our own incomplete paradigms."
ReplyDeleteI'm probably taking these out of context, but these are kind of at the heart of my relationship problem with God right now. I ask for guidance, for help, for something to hold onto that will prove to me that there is someone listening. I'd like to believe he is, and my prayers would support that, but that's not what I see. I'm not saying I get answers I don't like -- I feel like I am getting no answers at all. I ask for something as simple as his question -- guide me to the truth, and I feel like I get little or no answer. Sometimes I find myself looking for signs, like rainbows -- before I realize how silly that is.
I got my nose out of shape on FB the other day because someone posted a "God's Message" that said, short version, that we need to stop taking control of our lives away from God, but just relax, knowing that he is watching out for us. I find it funny (by which I don't mean funny, haha, but irritating as heck) that if you are trying to help yourself and failing, people say, "God is telling you 'no' right now." OK, that suggests God is in control. But then if you ask how God can let some people perform atrocities, then they say, "Well, God gave us free will." I expect that if God is intervening at all, it is probably in the form of gray rather than black or white, but it still makes me mad when people use absolute opposites to explain why things work out the way they do.
I'll have to answer 2 later -- I have a bad cold and promised I would get to bed early tonight :)
#2. I've often wondered about that ... when I came to college, I met some evangelicals who spent a lot of time trying to convert foreigners who were Muslims or Jewish, etc. I wondered what it would take to "convert" me from Christianity to some other religion, and it seemed to me that people who did convert might not have had very strong faith to begin with (like I'm one to talk.)
ReplyDeleteI really think an outsider's view on Christianity would depend on the Christian they are observing. My brand of Christianity is very different from my brother's (fundamentalist Christian) and my in-laws' (Roman Catholic) -- and I'm just a mainstream Lutheran :).
There is the ideal and the real Christian. I think the ideal Christian should be more like the good Samaritan -- helping others, no matter what their religion or ethnic background, and without an agenda or judgment. The ideal Christian should be peace-loving and peaceful.
Of course, Christians are just people, so to a certain degree it is hard not to judge others, at least a little. Soup kitchens that insist that the recipients also listen to a sermon are only trying to feed "soul as well as body," but to the recipient, it might feel like the soup kitchen folks are trying to push their dogma on them. I have so-called devout relatives who are financially prosperous (and staunch Republicans) who don't participate in charity much at all because they say (and believe) that people who fail to prosper are being punished by God, and that God rewards (on Earth) those who follow him "the right way." As far as peace-loving goes, we have the Inquisition and the Crusades in our past.
I think if I were an outsider looking in, I would think that Christians talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. I think they would find Christians pushy, tight, and hypocritical (since these days they seem to find ways to justify doing what they want, even if it goes against their dogma.)
#1) Mandy-you chose some powerful quotes from the book. Hey, I've been to seminary for 4 years, grew up in the church, and have been pastoring for several years now and I'm still asking those same questions. In fact, the longer I live as a Christian, the more questions I have. But I'm learning that maybe faith is not having to have answers to those questions, but to be at peace with letting them remain. One of the Christian philosophers said, "The answer to every sincere prayer to God IS GOD." God gives us God's self, to walk through the questions with us (see the Book of Job in scripture). I don't believe that God micromanages our lives. I believe that He/she cares and if we are attuned to the Spirit, we'll get occasional directions that could save us from danger or help us to choose wisely. But, perhaps, every choice we make-wise or unwise-is able to become part of God's ultimate plan. Maybe those choices teach us to love and forgive and trust each other and be faithful to each other, thus fulfilling God's ultimate purpose. But, my overall answer to your wonderings is...I just don't know.
ReplyDeleteThe ancient mystics and the spiritual giants of our day all say that the answer to hearing God is in learning to be silent, to stop asking and just listen. Easier said than done, right?
#2) I think that Neo and Dan are trying to point out to us that everybody comes with biases because we all look at faith from a certain vantage point. If we could be someone else for awhile and see things through their eyes, the world would look very different indeed. That's why I think humility about scripture and our own perspective on faith is so important. Each of us knows that there are things we believe now that we hadn't even thought about 10 years ago. Ten years from now we'll see things differently yet again. How can we exclude or judge any religion or person if we can't see the whole picture yet?
ReplyDeleteI am amazed by folks, even pastors (present company excluded) that make assumptions about other religions, and yet are wholly uninformed of those religions and/or the cultures they exist in predominately. How can I seek to "convert" a Buddhist, if I have no idea of what Buddhism is? Maybe I would take a step back and see that the person I am trying to save is in many ways already a good Christian...we have to find common ground.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if it was in Chapter 3, or within the comments here... but I was thinking cycles. Growth, decline... new and old. I had a group I spent many years with, and they spoke of cycles in growth and activity. Been on the decline for over a decade. Sad to see.
ReplyDeleteI guess I am a bit fearful of speaking my mind, my views usually send people looking for torches and firewood.
He spoke a bit about Heresy, that is interesting.
I would think change is constant, there are new saints and edicts all the time. So, perhaps a too rapid change is the source of angst.
Currently I think many churches are in the cycle of decline. Many reasons, but just not declining is a struggle sometimes.
If I were on the outside perspective? Christianity would seem disorganized and intolerant. Each church and each branch has diverging viewpoints and practices.
In other news, in another country... there was a massacre of people based on religion. Even as we have modernization issues, the fire and sword stuff from the old testament is still present.
Is the church, then, in a cycle of not just decline, but death, so that new birth can spring up? We're trying really hard to be new and relevant within an old institution. Is it possible to resurrect it or is there too much baggage the church has collected over the years that needs to be gotten rid of?
ReplyDeleteThere's a DVD I have at the church called "Constantine's Sword"--a documentary on the rise of intolerance and violence in the church that began with Constantine and continues yet today. I'd recommend it.
I think not, the church in some form has survived some 2000 years.
ReplyDeletePast few years I have done a lot of driving. I see many empty churches and buildings... and new ones built all the time.
Mega churches in Northern VA were being built a decade ago. Likely still.
I wonder how that is matching population increases and decreases that are happening.
And, near our old home is an abandoned church... it had a scary bridge across a creek, which was damaged by a flood. I wonder how the property will be handled if no people maintain it.
What,then, is the central message of Christianity? If other religions are able to find God and if those outside the church show the fruit of the Spirit-love, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, and self-control-what is the Good News we need to share?
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